Vegeta: Super's Boring Sequel | The Anatomy of Anime

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Dragon Ball Super is often compared to Dragon Ball Z in a lot fo negative ways. So today I want to take an in depth look at how Vegeta's character was handled throughout the series and how it's handling changed during Dragon ball Super's run in the modern era.

I may or may not also be avoiding my responsibilities in reviewing Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Heroes.

Special thanks to Rifti Beats for supplying some of the tracks used in this video. Check him out! - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL_oKJrJsH3c-N5xixPrP3w

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1724 comments
Totally Not Mark 5 month ago
To be clear. I really enjoyed other aspects of Dragon Ball Super. And overall I still enjoyed it. Next week... GT
TophDaGreat 5 month ago
Probably a pet peeve but it bothered me slightly that Vegeta went back to the saiyan armor in Super. I get it is a more iconic look, but the more humanized clothing he had in Buu arc to me told a story that he had gotten comfortable with the idea of being idk normal? lol
A UFO with WiFi coverage 5 month ago
Trunks:”Do you live in your own world” Vegeta:”Yes, unfortunately I have to share it with all of you”
joonzchoi 5 month ago
My personal favorite Vegeta moment is in the Cell saga when he apologizes to Gohan at the end. It's something you never see him do and brought his arc full circle for the time.
LKG Variety 5 month ago
"You're not dealing with the average saiyan warrior anymore"
junior M 5 month ago
Vegeta has the most character developemen't than any other character in dragon ball . and in my opinion the most badass.
David Loisel 5 month ago
I've always felt like super relies too much on nostalgia and memorable elements from dbz to the point that it makes that element boring. Take the Final Flash. In the original manga it happened only once and it was long, powerful, extraordinary and helped show Vegeta' s anger, determination and patience . Now in Super, Vegeta fires Final Flashs in no time, left and right and it doesn't mean anything.
giusti96 5 month ago
Honestly, I really like what they did with Vegeta in Super. After the speech he delivered during the fight with Majin Buu, it is clear he does not desire to surpass Goku anymore and has accepted his being second. He even acknowledges that not even having loved ones to protect made him as strong as Goku. He stops pursuing power as such. In Super, with the arrival of Beerus, he realizes how weak and incapable of protecting his loved ones he is, and therefore his struggle to become stronger begins anew, completely changed. Throughout the whole entirety of Super, he wants to surpass his limits to protect what he cherishes. This comes to a climax during the fight Toppo, where he states that he, unlike Toppo, does not leave behind what he is to become stronger (like he did in the Majin Saga), but only becomes stronger to protect what he is. It is for him like facing his former self in a way. TL;DR: In Z he pursues power as such, even using loved ones as “means” to surpass Goku, Super he becomes stronger to protect loved ones.
Lord Beerus 5 month ago
The major issue with Vegeta in Super is that in the creative department of Toei (series directors and writers) there were many people who had varying opinions on how Vegeta should be characterised. So in some episode he would be written well, then in the others he wouldn't be.
Absolutely Ningen 5 month ago
I'm still salty as shit over the fact that Vegeta wasn't allowed to kill Frieza in Resurrection F. Would it be so hard for Vegeta to actually have a victory without Goku sniping it at the last second or resorting to Fusio?
ThatOne IrishPerson 5 month ago
Honestly, I still do love the moment with him dangling by his boot on some floating debris in the Tournament of Power and he starts hearing Bulma in his head telling him to get up. I won't try to claim it was masterfully done or anything like that but it really just struck a wholesome cord with me. Maybe it was around the time that her VA passed away so it had a lot more punch to it. Who knows.
Monkey D. Kam 5 month ago
Would really love a Zuko character dissection tbh 😩
Gungywamp 5 month ago
"In order to express emotions, space and time are freely distorted" So....talking is a free action?
Dissonance Paradiddle 5 month ago
The one thing I liked about Vegeta in super was him finally becoming humble and teachable for a bit. Then it stopped....
Anime Nerd 5 month ago
Mark you can't hide forever You gotta make a Dragon Ball GT Video.
Mark LaFrancis 5 month ago
It’s telling that even the dragon balls themselves just don’t seem to matter anymore in Super.
THE UNDEAD 5 month ago
Vegeta: Has a mid-life crisis Everyone: lol same bro i feel
Darkie 5 month ago
There is one major moment where Vegeta's changed, and that's how protective he's been portrayed of his daughter Bra - foregoing training and keeping up with Goku in order to take care of Bulma during her pregnancy, even turning down the invitation to the tournament itself because of it -> it lead directly to Whis taking action to help in that regard. He's also portrayed as very doting of Bra after she's born. This, oddly enough, isn't as much a departure from the Vegeta we know from DBGT (he takes a lot of care of Bra there too), but he is quite different from the one we know from DBZ. Sure, it's not a huge emotional through-line that is then employed in the major moments, except for, maybe, his final stand in the Tournament of Power, and it is generally only shown in gags which ,as you put it, are in scenes that you may very easily miss, but it is there, and it is a difference we got from Super.
luke jones 5 month ago
So basically, Super lacks emotional weight in general. That's why its inferior to Z.
Patton 5 month ago
I love vegeta in super he went from a bastard evil lunatic to being a protector a father husband and a good person. I dont think of vegeta in super as another character arc but a continuation of z where z ended with him realizing what he needed a family where super shows how he treats and protects those he loves and his wanting for redemption from the past. in the moro arc he saved a namakian village like in z he killed one.
P Ariza 5 month ago
Vegeta is my favorite character from all the Dragonball franchise.
poopikins 5 month ago
The series would've been better off with Goku STAYING dead at some point in the series and having Vegeta being forced to realize his feelings by defending his family *and friends in place of Goku. Him showing some mentoring towards Gohan would prep him for realizing his feelings as well with Trunks. imo
Time Dragon 4 month ago
Vegeta’s “change” moments you mentioned aren’t exactly spectacular. But what about when he’s portrayed as a flat character? Like with Cabba? When the writers aren’t trying to keep Vegeta a positive change character, he can be pretty compelling in Super. The moments are brief but charming.
Kanye Westbrook 5 month ago
Vegeta grew like 2 inches since Dragonball Z.
Engin Seker 5 month ago
For me, its 42 volumes and out, and I'm fine with that. DBS is literally just a fanservice spin-off, even if Toriyama has given his blessing.
TheDailyDude2 5 month ago
Hi mark! I just wanted to say that your art has inspired me to improve my own skills. Thank you!
Sacred 5 month ago
I will always love vegeta, but I hate how super reckoned his development during the kid buu fight which turned him into the good person he is at the end of Z and he could actually have a civil/friendly conversation with goku
Lowell Lucas Jr. 5 month ago
Brian Drummond- YOU WONT ESCAPE MY WRATH! Chris Sabat- HERE IT COMES! A LITTLE GOING AWAY PRESENT! Super-I'LL EAT YOUR WHOLE RACE! Me=SOLD!
Roderrick Andersson 5 month ago
OMG YES I NEEDED THIS OMG YEE
Franklin Hooper 5 month ago
For me, as a life long humble servant of my prince, these are the moments that super did that made me smile, and appreciate how vegeta had changed over time. #1 vegeta gave everything he could to stomach taking his family to the fair in the beginning, even though it was clearly killing him. But, he made a promise, and he wasnt about to let his son down, not again. #2 vegeta could claim he didnt care for his family the way one should, but when his bulma was slapped, he achieved a power greater than he ever had on his own. He went toe to toe and boxed with god, and it didnt matter that he knew he couldnt win, he refused to go out like a bitch, and let someone get away with bringing harm to the mother of his child. #3 vegeta was willing to become a god of destruction if he needed to, just so he could train with whis (something that the writers must have completely forgotten about since i dont think its been touched upon at all since, maybe in the manga? I personally loved the idea that vegeta would be trained to one day become a god of destruction, and i really hope they still pursue this. While training with whis, he becomes more calm, patient, quiet, controlled. all the things needed to utilize god ki and achieve SSB. What he was able to accomplish on his own in the 6-8 months before goku arrives, easily put him far beyond gokus ability, but as usual the writers let goku overpower vegeta in no time, fuck goku. #4 In many ways, i felt vegeta had developed a patience that he previously struggled greatly with, as i stated above. He watched goku fight frieza and just studied what was going on, learning from the fight, rather than allowing his anger and need for revenge to cloud his judgment. By the time its his turn, frieza couldnt touch him if he wanted to, and vegeta finally was able to get a win for all of the saiyan race. #5 when future trunks arrived again, vegeta wasnt as cold to him, because he had watched him die once and we saw how terrified that made him. This time around, he was hard on the boy, but also so damn proud of the man he became. When he saw the people he saved, the care he had for mai when she was hurt, learned of bulmas death, it all hit vegeta hard. I believe i saw a proud papa smile on his face when trunks was able to resuscitate mai. It made me happy to see this reaction from him because i knew right then and there that vegeta knew he had more to fight for than ever. It showed when he trained his ass off in time chamber before the second fight with rose, and even when he trained trunks for a moment back in our time. That father son galick gun may not have had the kind of weight it needed, but for me i was so happy to see this moment, and still am. #6 Vegeta quickly becomes excited to learn of saiyans on another universe, and just as quickly as he was excited, cabba was immediately able to piss him off by giving up in battle. He used his rage to smack some sense into cabba, and teach him a lesson. He was able to help him achieve something greater, without showing weakness. He gave cabba something to strive for, and a reason to be a better saiyan for the sake of all of his people. He single handedly changed the lives of an entire planet, and he just doesnt know it yet. #7 before the top started, vegeta refused to leave bulmas side while she was pregnant. he would gladly let the universe end entirely than to miss the birth of his child again, and to leave his bulma alone to deal with it all again without him. He used to allow his pride to define what a warrior needed to be, but now he allowed his pride to define what a father and husband should be, and i loved this choice so much. its only once whis speeds up the process, and hes able to hold her for the first time, that he realizes he has so much more to fight for than he ever imagined, and it made him stronger, not weaker as he used to feel. #8 in the top itself, not only was vegeta able to surpass his limits on his own, without having to catch up to goku for once, he was able to use what he had learned over time and become more of a devastating fighter. by the time we reach the end, vegeta was able to achieve ssbe, for once his own transformation of sorts, and he was able to channel his love for his family, and his desire to avenge cabba and the new saiyan planet he hoped to be able to be a part of one day. Everything he ever cared about flashed before his eyes and it made him stronger again, and he surpassed his limits once more. then once that wasnt enough, and he gave every last breath he had fighting jiren knowing he couldnt win to buy more time for the others, he gave his last bit to goku on the way out, admitting he knew goku was always going to be above him, and he accepted that. It gave me pride to see this, even knowing it hurt vegeta to have to reach this point. That is all i can remember at the moment, but i felt we got some great moments in super, even if they werent as impactful as dbz was narratively. I am also loving his change in the manga moro arc where he refuses to let another namekien suffer while hes around, he apologizes to them for his past, and he even goes to yardrat to not only make himself better, but give the people he cares about a chance to survive. Vegeta has grown so much, and surpassed goku everywhere it counts for me, and it makes me proud to serve my prince.
ryan phillips 5 month ago
Unfortunately, vegeta didn't blow himself up for his family...his main motivation was to be the hero this time out of jealousy of goku. Punching goten was also a nice shot at goku and his true loathing. Of course, toriyama hates the vegeta character so even in super he never gets his due of killing frieza.
Iug 5 month ago
1:26 Damn, that is such an unsettling image for some reason. More so than the Smilling Pedo Vegeta. When did that happen?
King Similien 4 month ago
GOATED for putting clips of Gurren Lagann, Little Witch Academia, and Keep Your Hands off the Motion Picture’s Club
ConfusionEdits 4 month ago
We deserve one on Kirilin’s changes in DBZ and DBS!!!
cjsher90 5 month ago
First, love the DB Lofi. I practice Martial arts with those exact tracks. Love it. Second, you nailed Vegeta in DBZ, no question there. But for DBS, I feel like you may have missed the point. Vegeta's story in Super isn't just because of Super being a call back. It HAS to be a call back or else Z wouldn't have even mattered. He won't change because he has finally found balance. Until that balance was shook by the GoD, and then he desired divinity AND EARNED IT. We saw him cater to a sleeping Beerus, and fallow a Sensei (Whis) with as much respect as the prince has. His desire for power will always be driven by personal means, but now it's MORE than just trying to be the best. It's about being the BEST version of himself. IDK man, usually you're a little more upbeat about these kinda things. I'd like you to dive into a deeper analysis of Vegeta's Flat Arc in super. Just my opinion.
Yerga Dergen 5 month ago
I love what they've done to vegeta in super. Making him a family man who would give up everything for his son and wife has progressed his character. And now hes finally split from goku's footsteps.
Clutch Bangstrip 5 month ago
I think you're looking too deeply into Dragon Ball...especially Super...
Jackie Briefs ブリーフ 5 month ago
“You may have invaded my mind and my body, but there is one thing a Saiyan always keeps–his PRIIIIIDE!” Love that quote from good ol’ Vegeta tbh :)
ApexingTheApocalypse 5 month ago
Hm. It’s interesting cause I feel like I agree and disagree at the same time. Vegeta doesn’t really grow, and there’s no pressure on him to do so really from an emotional standpoint right, I get that. And I understand why that is boring, but what was Vegeta supposed to do? Some say he reverted backwards, but idk about that. When he saw there were other saiyans in other universes he decided he wanted to teach one as his pupil and even asked to visit their home planet. He protected and fought for Trunks against Goku Black and showed that he loves Trunks still and would never want to see him fall again like he did against Cell. To me, it might not be growth, but it shows that Vegeta still cares. So when it all comes down to it and he’s up against Jiren at the very end, with no more power left to fight, he still stands. Because he’s trying to protect what he needs. And he understands that now because of the growth from Z. And then in the end, he realized the better fighter was still there, and gave his last energy to Goku, because Goku was number 1. Of course Vegeta is still cocky, arrogant, and wants to prove he’s the best. Why would they throw that personality out the window just because he grew to realize he needed his family. Vegeta in super doesn’t need to grow, because Super was about fighting for what you need. Fighting for survival. That’s why they fought against Beerus to start, that’s why they fought against Freiza once more, that’s why the Tournament of Power happened. Sure, you can still believe it’s bad writing to not have an emotional stake for growth, but it’s not like they don’t have emotion at all. It’s interesting. And I just want to say, I love the video, love Dragon Ball, and love Vegeta! Thanks!
GrimmJow994 5 month ago
okay but what about his moment cabba? when he literally plays a role as mentor for the young saiyan?
welon17 5 month ago
7:50 Kids... a little bit of history, here: The kids in this part right there are none other than Ninten, Ana and Lloyd from Mother 1 or Earthbound Beginnings for NES. This is from a live-action commercial when that game came out. "No crying until the end." - Shigesato Itoi
Gareth Keenan 4 month ago
In summary, Vegeta's arc was already over in Dragon Ball Z. Super tried to recreate the nostalgic moments but it didn't have the same weight because Vegeta no longer had a character arc.
Lipe TopTop 5 month ago
vaaaagetaaah ~ King Nappa, DBZA
William Phillips 5 month ago
"Vegeta, no!" "Vegeta YES!"
Terry Jones 5 month ago
5:36 - Well ain't that Sasuke Uchiha in a nutshell? And unlike with Vegeta, Kishimoto never really had the balls to make the little scroat truly suffer for it.
sacreo920 4 month ago
He's undergone much less change in Super, but I would still argue that realizing he could stop chasing after Goku and pursue his own path to getting stronger was a more significant shift than it seems at first, building naturally on the end of Z. That said, it really took too long to happen and the execution wasn't great due to a lack of real build-up. The Cabba relationship is in a similar boat, though it still added a good angle to him as a character.
jeom 5 month ago
This video reminded me that in less then 2 days there will be a new super manga chapter- it has nothing to do with the video, i just started to watch, but im thankful.
red green 5 month ago
Mad respect for adapting Vegeta's DBZ nose for your thumbnail art of him. As much as I like his more proportional design now, his DBZ design is nostalgic.
Hugo Welti 5 month ago
I really love how well structured, well researched, and overall interesting your videos like this are. Keep up the good work!
Philip kelton 5 month ago
2:36 this could be decribe as the struggle between the Id/ego vs the Super Ego. the Id is the source of the needs of the characters.. that anxitty and stress one get from needing and wanting stuff. and the super ego is the artificial construction of idea and values we build based on what we know and what we believe we should aspire to.
Hamtaro 5 month ago
Dragon ball GT is my guilty pleasure... I know it has huge flaws but the work is still there and love it no matter what.... So please go easy on it Mark! 😂😭
Functional200 5 month ago
7:54 is that an earthbound reference?
Scruffy 5 month ago
This was my problem with DBS from the announcement of it. The entire concept is a compromise. If you set a story in between two other parts of an existing story, you can't change the characters in any meaningful way unless you alter the original ending. This is why GT, for its flaws, is better. It's an actual sequel that progresses the story and characters. Super isn't a sequel. It's like the Lion King 1 1/2 of anime: it answers questions nobody asked.
Dragzilla 66 5 month ago
7:50 is that EARTHBOUND!? 😂👌
Linden Perrott 5 month ago
*sees titles* "wait what, vegeta had a sequel arc?" *after video* "oh wait, not really"
Sam Poster 5 month ago
Articulated in the best way, good job man!
Brandon Leatherman 5 month ago
Honestly I think Vegeta is the character that makes super for me, as he is the only character who seems to have stakes. Goku has no real emotional connections to his family, and piccolo( my favorite character) is not significantly used enough for his connection to Gohan to mean anything. Vegeta has a family, who he loves, and will do anything to protect it, this in my opinion makes him the character to watch in super.
Amanda Anaya 5 month ago
He's still amazing in super.
High Life Productions 5 month ago
Thanks for this series. It really helps me learn about how stories work.
Man Bear's Universe 5 month ago
I've always commented on how vegetas character development took a step back in the same way his height did.
Despazeeto 5 month ago
DBS shouldn't have happened
100Darkspine 5 month ago
Of anything I expected to see during the video reference to Earthbound and a Mother commercial was not on that list Not that I am against it
Prince Vegeta 5 month ago
I like that Ultra Instinct theme remix playing in the background of the Super section of this video
tAsTe DiVinE fUry 5 month ago
What do y’all expect if his character is developed as much as possible lol
Clyde Phalanx 5 month ago
2:46 BLUE KI BLAST IN MY HAND
I'm The Map 5 month ago
This is one of those channel's I'm super happy to see a new vid from!!
Entertainment junkie 5 month ago
Vegeta peaked in the buu saga imo. Majin vegeta is my favorite version of him too.
Say Jah 4 month ago
Vegeta has the best longest, character development of any character in any anime, show U name it.
Shayn AKA Tzu 4 month ago
That metal super saiyan vegeta theme...where can I find it? I must know!
Aether Blackstar 5 month ago
Went from being such a good character to an accessory.how dragonball has fallen
Mikey Sama 5 month ago
May you send me that intro clip i need it in my life
nosaint317 5 month ago
Ugh... I'm gonna need a link to that Final Flash remix.
Frog Guru 5 month ago
Review the arch when its finished in about a year
Marco Giangreco 5 month ago
Perfectly explained, it's exactly what I wish I could have explained when people told me: look, here you have a new transformation for Vegeta, why do you complain it's not the way you want him to grow.
Random Otaku 5 month ago
First time I saw the comment section with not many comments yet. Amazing video Mark.
Prince Black Elf 5 month ago
wtf. Vegeta's battle against Toppo in Super was awesome, and a great character moment
Joe M 5 month ago
Super’s economy trades in currency known as nostalgia bait.
Gardetrace 5 month ago
This is exactly what I've been saying. Modern Dragon Ball constantly keeps throwing nostalgic moments at us without understanding why we loved those moments in the first place. Super needs to form it's own identity and have it's own character moments instead of relying so heavily on nostalgia.
BigBossLife 5 month ago
Can someone tell me the outro music Mark uses? I wanna give it a good ole' listen!
Netherwolf6100 5 month ago
Honestly, the best place for Vegeta's character to go is for him to not only become stronger than Goku by a wide margin once again, but for him to also fulfill the role or Earth's Protector while Goku is absent, dealing with another problem off world. For a negative situation to occur (Especially with Freeza) and have Vegeta be the true last line of defense would be the best growth his character could undergo at this time. For him to take on the burden and responsibilities that Goku usually does, his arc would finally come full circle as the man who came to earth to destroy it, to him becoming its best and strongest protector.
Elijah Schmitt 5 month ago
You’re awesome Mark! ✌️❤️ Oh, I love your Shintani/manga style drawings!
West For lols 5 month ago
*I Would Like To Take This Quote From My Epic G a m e r*
Fonso_Arc 5 month ago
I liked that moment’s in DBZ fusion reborn when Vegeta said “for what I should be thanking you” to Goku for their combined effort in defeating Jamemba. In DB Super Broly a similar movie Vegeta was kinda meh.
TK Martin 5 month ago
Great video, glad to see an Anatomy of Anime post again.
bleeborg 5 month ago
YES! THIS! I've talked with one of my dbz loving fans about super and especially Vegeta in length but this puts most of that into one condensed package. There are parts about super I like but I think it's overall mediocre. GT for all it's flaws feels like a truer sequel. Especially with Vegeta's character. Super basically undid some of his character devleopment while GT kept it. Vegeta in GT is no longer obsessed with power and being the best, content to live life with the important things that he came to realize were important. Hence why he doesn't force Trunks to be a warrior like him and let's him go down Bulma's path of being a scientist. Super feels like it discarded the parts of Vegeta it didn't need and called it a day. Also that section where TN Mark talked about how super recreated iconic scenes from Z without the emotion and build up. Again, YES! Vegeta's "sacrifice" in the ToP arc and just in general how uninspired the universe 6 saiyans are just like jingling keys in front of a baby. All flash no substance. Like kid Trunks and Goten getting to super saiyan was underwhelming but the universe 6 saiyans well, tingly feeling. I could go on but at this point it will just turn into a rant about Super's flaws.
Sam Giannelli 5 month ago
I like how you used 94Stones's cover
Billy Williams 5 month ago
Amazing video. Possibly best I’ve seen in this series.
Wolf1991ism 1 5 month ago
Please do a video about King Cold, next ✨🙏🏻
Fin Fen 5 month ago
I've still been hopeful that super was a chance for the studio to get back into the flow of things and the real magic of dragonball would return if they picked up the story after Goku and Uub's fight at the tourney. I can dream.
Jacob Picasso 5 month ago
Honestly In the TOP arc I feel like they finally found out what they wanted to do with both goku and vegeta and in the future we will get that quality we got in top but more consistently. I love the writing of the Top other than obvious fuck up characters like the love warriors
Charles 4 month ago
Right... same quality as I've come to expect from ya boi Mark, but, uh... I'm gonna need to ask what anime that was with the three girls and the weapons in the background :'D
DTDreamer 5 month ago
Hell yeah, another anatomy of anime🥳🥳🥳
David Idiart 5 month ago
Huh... now I'm self-conscious about my writing since your little speech on amateur writers mistaking writing-models for instinct. Thanks???
Dat Boi Mikey 5 month ago
I feel like when the beerus arc happened Vegeta was written perfectly after that idk..
cliffbot 5 month ago
7:18 A six pack in DBS? Usually men in this universe have 4 packs.
Logan Matthews 4 month ago
Id like to know the character arc of Vegeta's neck
Greyson Snyder 4 month ago
I wanna start by saying that I love your channel and you make awesome, high quality videos. However I kinda disagree with how you expected Vegeta to change in Super. The Buu Saga was about Vegeta and his overall arc in figuring himself out. I don’t think he still needs to do that in Super. He’s got his priorities figured out, he knows he needs his family. That’s why he puts more focus on his family and in being a teacher to Cabba. Now I do agree that the call back scenes (exploding in the tourney for example) had far less emotional weight but I don’t think they really needed to have weight. The scenes with him pushing Cabba to SS and not training while Bulma was about to give birth show where he is emotionally. He wants to push himself as a warrior but he wants to be there for others as well. I do wish he had suggested fusion in Broly though.
PhantomVortex 5 month ago
Nah, I think Vegeta's character development gets too much praise. Starting from Dragon Ball characters have made similar transformations, only they dont constantly revert back to how they were before the transformation. Just like what Piccolo had said... when Vegeta dies he wont meet the same fate Goku did when he died. Vegeta seems to be the only character that doesnt suffer the full consequences of his actions. each time he did, he is brought back to life and instantly forgiven. he for some reason still has this urge to kill. super just gave him something to be interested in other than killing and destroying stuff and that was his family.
RTBFIT 5 month ago
What background beat is that when talking about DBS part? Sounds like a Hip Hop Lofi version of one of the theme songs.
Eternity Void_1999 5 month ago
7:50 Earthbound
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